The fundamental question is whether these marks were struck merely to identify the maker of the piece, or whether they also signified that the item had actually passed a proof test successfully. Ref 3171 ... A good English flintlock pocket pistol made by "Wright" of London and engraved with the makers name. He illustrated about 20 more marks Larry. Belgian Proofmarks. Please note! 1672 – 1810, 1853 - present 2 Replace #1 in 1810. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. To my knowledge the Belgians were the only one's who identified the Controller. High quality modern case for a shotgun 87 x 29 x 10 cm, would suit gun with 68 cm barrels. In addition to all the other marks, the Liege Bank of Proof also had the Controller of Proof stamp the gun. A number of book by Dr. James Whisker and various co-authors list Amercian makers by specific region. Doesn't this seem strange? As with gun marks, to list all the trade names is beyond the scope of this book. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. https://gerardcox.blogspot.com/2014/06/deciphering-belgian-proof-marks.html Please note! Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Can be without star and ring. Date of Manufacture declared on all Antique Guns. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. PROOF MARKS: AUSTRIAN PROOF MARKS, cont. American Gunsmiths by Sellers, and American Gun Makers by Gluckman & Satterlee list American makers. The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. 86322, 12 gauge. That's the easiest way to identify a post-1924 gun, and to know the factory chamber length of the more modern ones. Many old guns may have been re-proved once or more, often in a different proof house from the original one. My 1924 or before gun must have gone in for a later reproof as it has a lion over P.V. May be blued from 1923. 28 inch barrels marked Von Lengerke & Detmold/U.S. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. This is an easy to use site for converting metric to real. More Info ... A Belgian 6 shot double action 10 mm antique pin-fire revolver. * * A cased pair of English Flintlock duelling pistols by the famous gun maker Durs Egg. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. English Provincial Makers’ Marks Provincial makers’ marks, i.e., those struck by gunmakers who were not members of the London Gunmakers Company. My W. Foerster and J. Ansorg Berlin marked gun has German proofs on the Krupp barrel flats but a peron with an S and a star above on the action flats. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Today’s Gun Makers, Engravers and Dealers of German Hunting Guns Most of the traditional bolt-action rifles and combination guns are still made today, but the following changes and trends are apparent: Prices of German factory made guns are in general higher than equal models in the United States but usually offer more custom features.Guns made to order by some factories … 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. A … Belgian date codes. It's very possible the R choke has been opened and you must measure the actual bore and choke constriction to know. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. 30 nov. 2015 - Cette épingle a été découverte par Eve Ashcraft. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. PROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKSPROOF MARKS: BELGIAN PROOF MARKS, cont. This had been going on for decades. BELGIAN PROOF MARKS Mark Number Description Dates Used Mark 1 The Perron, sole proof mark until dropped in 1810, Since 1853 used to indicate inspection or proof of breeching system. Since that gun is not American, I suspect its real origin was Spain. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. PROOF MARKS: AUSTRIAN PROOF MARKS, cont. BELGIAN PROOF MARKS PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun since 1852 Liege provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns and rifled barrels - Liege- double proof marking for unfurnished barrels Applies primarily to guns made outside the U.S. Information courtesy of The Blue Book of Gun … In honor of the 125th anniversary of American Rifleman, the following is an excerpt from the January, 1971 issue: Identifying Mauser Markings. Belgian proof marks and makers marks are located on the underside of the barrels. It is not easy to pinpoint the share going to the Liege people in the development of the portable weapon in the 19th century, but, between 1830 and 1907, there was not less than 6.331 patents granted in Belgium in this field. 1894-> Liege. BELGIAN PROOF MARKS PrOOF mark CirCa PrOOF hOuse tYPe OF PrOOF and gun since 1852 Liege provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns and rifled barrels - Liege- double proof marking for unfurnished barrels In England, the London and Birmingham proof houses were established (in 1637 and 1813, respectively) by Royal Charter to protect the public from the sale of unsafe weapons. The gun was finely crafted with A 12 gauge Francotte double barrel shotgun Serial A 12 gauge Francotte double barrel shotgun Serial no. This had been going on for decades. Education is of the secondary inferior or superior professional level. The French proof system is old and start in 1700. I've revised the 'Belgian Maker's and Proof Marks' album to make thing a bit easier, with the essential illustrations much larger. Ref 7323. Ref 9960. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. In addition to gun marks, there are thousands of trade names which can reveal similar details to that of gun marks. The Belgian gun trade today is but a shadow of its former self. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Originally it was managed jointly by the gun manufacturers, the State, the Province and the City of Liege. Proof Marks are usually found on the underside of the barrels, and if a gun has German proof marks and was made in 1892 or later, you know that the gun was proof tested in Germany. ... [more like this] A lot of two double barrel shotguns Comprising: 1) 12 gauge hammer gun, serial no. I was too lazy to enlarge, cut and paste, and post all of them. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can’t get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can’t find the inspectors mark. This was done with a letter with an * over it. We are partnered with such Belgian arms companies as "Lebeau-Courally and "Browning Arms Company" and many more Belgian guns companies. For specifics on Copyright Law and Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. ], you can probably tighten the choke in it via 'backboring'... jig: 18.0 is .70866, or at least 15 points contriction for a standard European 12b which, at the time of production of your gun, was probably .724. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Découvrez vos propres épingles sur Pinterest et enregistrez-les. The European socialist states of Europe, always opposed to the private ownership of firearms, have successfully fostered an anti-gun climate across most of Europe that has effectively decimated the customer base. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Choose from 20+ Antique Guns, prices from £175 to £6,950. Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. Designates rifled barrel. Designates rifled barrel. 20 Gauge SxS European Hammer Double Gun Here we present an antique Double Barrel Side by Side Percussion Shotgun, made circa 1840 in Liege, Belgium. Circa 1862-1865. Jim It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a “date letter” as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of … Proof marks are stamps applied to various parts of a weapon during and after manufacture to show that the weapon is safe for use with the ammunition for which it was designed.. Wood Bottom 1900-1930: Commercial Wood Bottom 1900-1923: Cal. Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter “F-J C” was used in the same purpose. I have all the usuall culprits on my 1924 or before gun but also a P with an asterix over it and an N with an asterix over it. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. This was done with a letter with an * over it. The major countries which either did not have proof or whose marks were not recognized were the U.S. and Spain. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. 1813 - 1855 The London provisional mark was introduced at some point during this proof period but even the Proof House cannot be sure precisely when at this distance in time. Is that how they did it/ They would just take the gun in and ask for a reproof? There was a short stop in the arms trade during the french revolutions. The gun features fine twist barrels, scroll engraving, and hand checkering. However, as the US has no federated proof system and American makers conduct their own proof tests, US guns must be proofed on arrival in the UK, because the US is not a CIP member. Pair of English Flintlock pocket pistol made by `` Wright '' of London and engraved the... 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